For a talk at Eco Farm Day 2020 by the Canadian Organic Growers, I compiled a few thoughts on how to talk about meat to media. Please also note my second post on “Talking points“, which explains facts and provides some references and links.
Some philosophizing on the nature of the meat debate
For me personally, I am not defending livestock practices in general. I actually find many things revolting that are standard in the industry. And even in the “sanitized” version of food-safe livestock husbandry, I believe that animals are often raised out-of-context in ways that are counter their instincts, their habits, their natural behavior. I am focus on explaining to my audience that “It is not the cow, it’s the how!”. I believe that livestock can be raised ethically, and I have no ethical problems with raising animals for food, or with slaughter. Yet, I know that “another livestock sector is possible!” and – even going one step further – “Another livestock sector is necessary!”, because the regeneration of our biosphere absolutely requires that we move away from annual row crops and move toward perennial groundcover, e.g. in pastures.
In my view, a debate that is framed along the lines “animal proteins vs. plant proteins” is covering up the fundamental problem of agriculture: Our dominant way to “produce” animals and row crops is neither ethical nor can we survive with its environmental footprint. Yet, it is absolutely possible to produce food ethically, regeneratively, and in sufficient volume to feed a growing world population. In fact, regenerative production is the ONLY way to feed our population in the long run.
In most cases, productivity and nature are regarded as “either-or’s” – the more we produce the more we must destroy nature. In other words, the utilization of nature for human food must be at the expense of nature, because nature and humans compete for the same resources (land, nutrients, water). Western culture is deeply rooted in how we frame our lives around competition, selection & survival, and zero-sum games. Even ecological farmers and activists are not free from it… Have you ever thought that this new ecological farmer next door is stealing your customers? Have you ever felt concerned when someone else offers the same services that you believe in? The paradigm of scarcity, and the idea of competition as prevailing social glue, are deeply ingrained in all of us, even if we make conscious efforts to overcome it. And it is not accidental that the most important biologist of the 20th century that basically defined our understanding of life, Lynn Margulis, found very little recognition for her revolutionary work.
The very idea of regenerative agriculture breaks radically with this “either/or” paradigm and embraces a paradigm of abundance. The more you give the more you will get in return (think of love, fertility, life!). The more others grow the better I will be (economically, spiritually, and in recognition). The healthier my soil, the more abundant my crops, and the more productive my herd. The better we care for nature, the more meat we can eat.
Speakers should be aware that regenerative agriculture is a drastic shift away from the dominant belief system. The paradigm of scarcity frames the “animal vs. plant proteins” debate: “Land is either destroyed for animal protein or it is destroyed for plant protein. We utilize less land if we eat plants and stop using animals.” In regenerative agriculture, we shifted into a paradigm of abundance. We believe that in order to restore nature, we have to increase productivity of our herds. This is fundamentally counter the dominant paradigm of scarcity of most listeners.
It is my very intention to promote the idea of Regenerative Meat. I cannot do that without embracing the paradigm of abundance.
My preferred line of argument
on the regenerative potential of meat
Many people came to the conclusion that meat is produced in an unethically and environmentally indefensible manner, especially given a rising global population. Animal proteins must be assessed together with others regenerative proteins from plants or microbes. Regenerative agriculture is not a question of a dietary preference. I am personally a flexitarian. I like tofu, beans, and other non-meat proteins – bu I also like steak, roast, or other animal products. I also understand that a small number people require a high-meat diet. More important than diet are arguments around ethics as well as about environmental impact.
My intention is to re-frame the discussion around meat. We can produce meat ethically and regeneratively, or unethically and degeneratively. The same is true for plants. Today, the vast majority of plant and meat production is degenerative, and we can change that. I want to move away from arguing about the individual’s dietary choice, and instead contrast regenerative vs. degenerative production systems. Every diet should be regenerative, regardless of anyone’s preferred protein source. In situations where there are only degenerative choices, it may be preferable to choose plant-based proteins because its environmental footprint is lower. However, this should not distract from the real solution to the environmental dilemma, which is a transition to regenerative agriculture. As a regenerative farmer and advocate, I want to convince my audience that
- “We have a problem!” I share the common concern about the negative impacts of dominant industrial meat production, even though as an insider my opinion may be slightly more nuanced.
- It’s not the cow, it’s the how! Meat production is possible in ways that are ethical and environmentally regenerative; the problem and the solution is in livestock management, not in livestock.
- Livestock play a role for nature: For scaling up ecological farming, we can only farm with plants and animals in an integrated system. Banning animals limits ecological farming to an irrelevant niche and gives all power to industrial field cropping.
- Only livestock can reverse desertification. In a large part of this world, regenerative meat production is actually the only option to counter desertification (defined as a loss of biodiversity and soil).
- Trust-worthy products are possible. Consumers will be able to access meat that was produced in a responsible manner and that is neither co-opted nor fraudulent.
Consumers cannot readily identify regenerative production on the mass market, even if first initiatives are on the horizon. Unfortunately, this leaves concerned consumers with only bad choices of choosing between degeneratively grown meat protein or degeneratively grown plant protein. Many consumers make the point that degenerative plant products have less ecological footprint than degenerative animal products. I can respect this point of view — the organic movement and the ecological movement have failed to create a market that can guarantee animal welfare and environmental benefits. However, from an ecological farming perspective, by far the best path would be regenerative meat and animal production – a third path that currently has low visibility. I encourage consumers to buy from farmers that they trust, and to demand food options that are regenerative.
Some tips when talking to media
This section builds on recommendations by Aric McBay‘s work with the National Farmers Union of Ontario.
Understand your goal. When talking to the media or other audiences as a social advocate, make sure you understand your goal whenever you engage with others, especially if you are not sure about their intention. What is the main message that you want to get across? Do you want your audience to see a new perspective, or correct a common misconception or myth? Or do you want them to support a specific policy or action or attend an event? Do you want to build a personal connection or market regenerative products?
For meat specifically, clarify to yourself what you want to achieve, and what is your role in talking to your audience. Do you want to defend farming in general, or animal farming? Do you want to make a point that Regenerative Agriculture is more ethical, or ethics in animal husbandry? Do you want to deflect concerns about farming in general? Each of these foci requires a very different communication strategy.
Who is your audience? Do you want to convince an interviewer/conversation partner, or a shared audience? What language does your audience understand readily? What cues will easily raise red flags with your audience, e.g. because it signals partisanship? Is your talk recorded so that it will be viewed out-of-context by different audiences? Especially in the highly emotionalized debate around meat, different audiences hear different cues and have different trigger points.
Know your facts. The better you know these arguments, the easier it will be to understand misleading questions and stay away from slippery slopes. The talking points below outline the main arguments and facts that support these arguments.
Make it personal. Share your own development, your own struggle to live up to your ideals, your own surprises when you learned about the topic – these personal touches make you relatable. Talk about your friends, or journeys of individuals. Facts are good – but stories bring these facts to life! And stories help your audience to put your facts into their long-term memory.
Match, join, lead. These are not only principles of the soft martial art but also in the art of persuasion. Find a shared purpose, shared ethics, shared values, and shared goals with your audience. Explain how you have also seen the concerns of your audience (“match”), that you thought these through and that it was difficult for you to navigate the complex facts around it (“join”). Then express why you believe that the dominant line of argument (e.g. veganism) is insufficient to address the fundamental problem. Now lead the argument: Reframe the fundamental problem based on your facts, and explain how this relates to the solution that you see.
Practice talking with media
Practice, practice, practice. You can practice a 7-min talk, a 3 min-talk, and a 30 sec sentence that captures your main point. Role playing games are probably the best method to learn handling hostile situations. Put yourself out there – especially in situations with a “friendly” audience, you can learn talking about meat without risking negative consequences. And even if it is a friendly audience – practice the toughest questions that you can think of.
Role playing games help. The simplest form is that one person plays an interviewer, a second person the interviewee. If you have more time, I really like a group game: The entire group and the audience listen to a background story. Each player (2-3) get a card with some clues. For example, a story with three, a complainer, a defender of meat, and a facilitator. The complainer is a vegan who really is traumatized from seeing a horrific scene in an indoor facility as a child but lacks knowledge of ecosystem services, whereas the “defender” is unaware that others may not understand regenerative grazing. The facilitator is actually tested to navigate how the two talk past each other, and ask good questions that both can learn about their perspectives. The audience and the actors learn equally…
Some points to keep in mind:
- Respect a difficult topic! Talking with media is difficult, especially because the facts behind meat ecological impacts exceed the general knowledge about food systems and ecosystem functions. Very few people understand grasslands, even fewer dry rangelands. Indeed, I believe that the environmental dimension of meat production is among the toughest subjects to discuss.
- Avoid judgmental terms. At all times, avoid unclear and value-laden arguments that do not have clear answers (morality around eating meat, dietary should’s and shall’s), focus on clear points and outcomes (soil regeneration matters to us).
- Know your facts. Avoid lines of argument that you do not fully understand. You easily start rambling, which makes a poor impression.
- Who do you speak for? Be very clear whom you are representing. Are you talking for yourself, for your farm, for an organization? Your talking points should always reflect the purpose and values of whom you are representing! Know an organization’s positions, your family farm’s marketing pitch.
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